Letter ID: 0551
Reference: TNA, SP 105/91/78 f.194r-198r
Citation: DCB/001/HTML/0551/008
Date: 22 July 1590
Copy of: 0945



Later Addition: to the L: Chancellor: L Thresurer & L: Buckhurst

May it please your good LLes: as by our former lettres we have already signified, we delivered to the States generall upon the xvith of June last certaine Proposicions selected owt of the partes of our Instructions, as meetest in our opinions to be first handled, in respect they did not onely concerne the Reformacion of the Disorders in the Musters and Martial Discipline (whereof they have long Complayned) but also the matters wherein her Majestie requireth satsifaccion as by the Coppie sent herewith shall best appeare unto your LL. Whereunto we received their answers by way of Appostill the xiiith of July and not sooner, although we were often importunate by speche and lettres to urge a conference to thende we might come to some Conclusion uppon the said Proposicions. After we had received and considered of their answers, and founde the principall thinges required by her Majestie with gentle wordes denyed; we demanded audience and entred with them into conference upon the xvth of this presente: shewed unto them the reasons and Causes that mooved her Majestie to demande the thinges they had denyed, and their inconsiderate refusall made to gratifie her Majestie in matters of so slender moment, and wherein she might at all tymes right her self, having meanes thereunto as they could conceive. This we amplified to the uttermost of our understanding, and brought them to promise that they wolde consider and deliberate againe upon the same pointes, and yelde us suche furder answere, as the state of their Country and affaires wolde permitte.

Some fewe daies before the delivery of their Appostilles they sent unto us in writing by their Greffier Aersens, six Proposicions by the which they desired to understande what auctoritie we had to geve them satisfaccion to the severall matters therein conteyned whereunto we answered by way of Appostill as yoour LL. shall perceyve by the inclosed.

But to digresse somewhat from these thinges we are to let your fol.194v
LL. understand that before we entred to Treate with the States upon the matters of our Negotiacion, we desired to knowe of them, as we dyd at the tyme of our first accesse, whether they were auctorised from their Provinces to Treat and Conclude with us for thexplaining of the Treatie &c. as we were from her Majestie appearing by our lettres of credence delivered unto them: they answered us in so doubtfull maner and with such distinctions (standing upon the pointes of their Soveraintie and the absolute auctoritie they had in the qualitie of the States generall) that we were constrained to demaunde their answere in writing which your LL shall herewith receyve: They confessed nevertheles unto us that though their auctoritie (as they were a Body) was sufficient to deale and conclude in all thinges, yett in their Discretions they ever used to have the advise of their particular Provinces in all thinges that were to receive determinacion among them wherein they shold have cause to bynde the Provinces, and that folowing the same course, they had imparted our proposicions to their severall Provinces and had geven answers unto them according to the resolucions they had receyved.

And furder concerning the Nine articles delivered unto them by me Thomas Bodley in August last, they answered in speche, that bycause the same conteyned onely generalities their Provinces coulde not agree to geve auctoritie to Treat and Conclude upon them. for that their Commissions are alwaies and onely geven upon thinges particular.

To returne to our Conference when we had received their answere as aforesaid, and put in some hope of better successe after their seconde consideracion had of our Proposicions, we were contented at their ernest request to open unto them how farre we were auctorised to geve them satisfaccion in the matters of their six Proposicions, and dyd declare toching their Trade with fol.195r
Spaigne that her Majestie had geven us power to tender unto them certaine condicions which her Majestie required to have observed by the subjectes of the united Provincestrading to those partes: and for the Disadvowance of the Actions of suche persons as they had pretended to have disturbed their state under pretence of service to her Majestie, [not] had also here under her Majesties hande an Acte or Declaracion to that effect. The States desired to have a Coppie of the Condicions of their Trade, that they might consider of them, and we wolde likewise deliver into their handes the Acte of Disadvowance to thend they might use the same to the benefit of the Provinces according to her Majesties gracious purpose. And forasmuche as we fynding them colde and slowe in satisfying (in any one pointe) her Majesties expectacion, and desirous to geve them some provocacion to proceede roundly and breefly with us; we delivered unto them at our third meeting on the xviith of this moneth a Coppy of the Condicions, and yelded to let them see the Acte of Disadvowance.

The Condicions they misliked as overharde, alleaging that their whole Trade into Eastlande was onely upon victuel, Munition, and suche other Marchandises as were prohibited by the said Condicions: That if they sholde forbeare to Trade in those kyndes of Marchandise, other Nations wold prevent them in the course of their Trafficq, and so their Trade and Navigacion decay to the ruine of their state.

The Acte of Disadvowance we refused to deliver (as so directed) unles they wolde assent unto an abolition towarde such persons their Compatriotes as were banished and Disgraced by them for shewe of their affection to do service to her Majestie and her Nation in these Countries, and for whome her Majestie by her lettres and otherwise had often interceded and could not prevayle. After long debating and many reasons yelded by us to induce them to gratifie her Majestie in this pointe they Concluded that if we wolde deliver the Acte to be published fol.195v
it wolde be a meane not onely to move the Provinces but the Townes in particular where the banished are had bene sentenced by course of Justice (and withowt whose consent they might not remitte th'offence already Judged) to condescend to so muche as her Majestie required. We desired therein to be pardoned, and advised them on their parte to bethinke themselves of a reciprocall course to gratifie her Majestie in the one, as she had freely and graciouslie granted thother. But we founde not our reasons and perswasions at that tyme like to prevayle and so ended our Conference.

Upon the xviijth of July we returned againe to our audience expecting some gratefull answere to our first Proposicions, at which tyme Barnevelt (speaking for the rest as President) declared unto us that the States there assembled had with good maturitie reviewed and Considered our Proposicions and that fynding a great Difficultie in the fyrst article concerning the geving of the Discipline and Publishing the Ordonnances for Musters to her Majesties auxiliarie Troupes which apparteyning unto them in respect of the Soveraintie of their Countries they could not assent without prejudice to their auctoritie that it shold be donne by her Majestie, or in her name, and that bycause the rest of the Articles required to be granted were grounded upon the same matter and auctoritie they might not in any sorte change their answeres already geven: howbeit if we wolde deliver the reasons of our mislike of their said answeres in writing, they wold take some tyme to consider furder on them, and use the advise of the Councell of State how to geve us other satisfaccion, although for their owne partes they could not see how the presente state of their fol.196r
Country could beare any other resolution to those pointes then was already delivered. True it is my LL that this first pointe coming to be debated betwene them and us after their Appostilles delivered, we stoode with them, as warranted by the Contracte, (as we take it) that her Majestie and her General ought to geve the Discipline to her owne subjectes, in respect they were a voluntary succor of her Majestie granted to the Provinces upon their humble peticion, and not as mercenarie though her Majesties charge were to be remboursed at thende of their warres. They helde the Troupes notwith standing to be mercenarie, and withall pleaded the last Article of the Treatie, where it is said that her Majesties Gouvernor and forces shall take the Oathe accustomed to the Provinces, which, say they, is to Obey the discipline of their Countryes. we therefore having in our other Conferences delivered asmuche as might in reason perswade them to allowe this power to her Majestie not thinking it fit to enter againe into any furder dispute with them of that matter, we tooke thoccasion to replye to the last parte of their speeche, and declared howmuche we wondred at their so strange and straight kynde of dealing with her Majestie: howmuche they forgate the benefittes they had receved from her even to the preservacion of their Estate, That their maner of proceeding appeared unto us to be so full of suspition and mistrust, that if we had bene Spaigniards it coulde not be worse: That they were deceyved in their Conceiptes if they thought her Majestie were not in case to mainteyne her Estate withowt them: That where they pretended their refusall of her Majesties Demaundes to be for the preservacion of their estate, that their course in this sorte helde towarde her Majestie was a high way to the Ruine of the same: Yf her Majestie be their ingratitude sholde be drawen to Revoke her succors: That her Majesties demaundes were not newe thinges unto them but such as had bene often urged and ever denyed or doubtfully fol.196v
answered: That it was not to be thought they were now to seke of their resolucion to the said demandes, and that their pretence to conferre with the Councell or our Replyes were but devises to wynne tyme: and that we supposed the Provinces not to be of their mindes, to yelde so ingratefull requitall to her Majestie for so greate and inestimable benefites. This, and muche more (too long to be written) we delivered unto them, which bred in them no greate alteracion of their purpose, but rather a stomack to answere us, that they were bounde to see to the saftye of their Countryes: That these Demaundes of her Majestie tended to the overthrowe of them: That they knewe it dyd importe her Majestie asmuche as them to kepe their Countryes from the Spaignardes, to whome if they sholde yelde themselves by a Peace, her Majestie wolde speedily fynde the wante of their alliance: That whatsoever her Majestie had bestowed in the succor of them according to the Contracte, sholde be duely repaide, and for the which sufficient Caution remained in her hands. and that their resolucions delivered to our Demandes were suche as they had receyved from their severall Provinces. To these their answers we replyed as apperteyned, and confirmed our Conceiptes of their purpose even by their owne doinges and allegacions. This Conference ended we departed from their assembly without any Conclusion at all, and with as little hope of any better correspondence. untill on the xixth of this moneth, one among them professing himself in all dutie devoted to her Majestie comming to me Thomas Wilkes by occasion to my lodging fell into speche of what had passed betwene the States and us in the last Conference, gave me to understand as of himself under of secrecie that upon some smalle consideracion taken by his Colleages of the Proposicions upon the which fol.197r
we had somuche misliked, there was hope they wolde geve her Majestie therein suche reasonable satisfaccion as might well be required: and therefore dyd advise us to proceede and to deliver againe in writing suche reasons as we had uttered in spece to induce them to yelde to her Majesties demaunds. This party likewise as a person seeming to tender her Majesties honor, and wishing a good and dutifull opinion to be contynued in this people towardes her Majestie, gave furder advise that we in seeking to procure grace and remission for the banished and disgraced sholde in any case forbeare to use her Majesties name for suche as were proscribed at Leyden, alleaging that forsomuche as the late Earle of Leycester had disadvowed the dooinges of those persons in that place, her Majestie had no reason to intreate for them, and that the motions heretofore made in their favor from her Majestie had geven some occacion to suche as were not well affected unto her, to enter into conceipte, and to perswade others that her Majestie shold take upon her to advowe the dooinges of those men. He declared furder that for all the rest (Monsieur Deventer onely excepted) there wolde be no difficultie made, and that likewise for her Majesties sake favor might be granted to the men of Leyden so as sute were made by some particular person in their owne names. By this advise we are incouraged to proceede and to folowe the opinion and direction of the partie aforesaid and upon the successe, will not faile with diligence to advertise your LLp.

Suche as have sought to disgrace and slander the Actions of her Majestie and her subjectes here, have dangerously blowen into the eares of the common people that her Majesties intention from the begyning hath bin by indirect and undue meanes (notwithstanding her refusall made of the Soveraintie and protection of these Countryes offered unto her) to Seaze and usurpe the auctoritie and government in these contries fol.197v
and to that ende whatsoever hath bin here don by her Majesties Generals that might receyve construction of evill, is layde to her Majesties Charge, as don by her Majestie. This hath bin spred by the practise of some notable persons of these Countryes, suche as doo affect the faction of the Frenche. Which is folowed here (notwithstanding it is endevoured to perswade her Majestie and your LL to the contrary) so ernestly under hande, that the common people have nothing els in their mowthes and conceiptes but that the Frenche King shall become their Soveraine and stick not to say even to our faces that are englishe that they hope of better assistance and Relief from France then ever they have had from her Majestie.

Moreover there is nothing don in Englande to the prejudice of any inhabitante here, but is made matter to aggravate and inlarge the misconceipt of the people against her Majestie, as namely some Ships and goodes of theirs nowe lately staide by Sir Martin Frobosher, (whereof at the instance of the States we have written to your LLes) is geven owt somuche to the disadvantage of her Majestie and her Nation as nothing more. We therefore aswell to [incontre] this practise as to prevent the mischeefe that may folowe thereof, have (as so advised from some of the best experienced patriotes of these Countryes and under your LLp favor and correction) thought good to frame a lettre which her Majestie by yoour LLes mocion and mediation may be pleased to write to certaine of the principall Townes of the Provinces to stay the slanderous reportes and Conceiptes spred of her Majestie as aforesaid: the Coppie whereof yoour LLes shall receyve herewith to be altered and corrected as to you shalbe thought convenient so it may answere the pointes of the slander therein mencioned and a like draught of a lettre to the States general notifyng the Causes that have mooved her Majestie in defence of her honor to write to the Townes, which we thinke as fol.198r
necessarie as the other. wherein if there may be expedicion used we are opinion it will stay the violent course of the Practisers in reguarde of France, Remoove all sinister Conceiptes here of her Majestie and her subjectes, and drawe the Provinces to a better conformitie in the matters we have to propounde: Beseching your LLes nevertheles (yf her Matie shalbe pleased to write the lettres) they may be sent unto us and left to our discretion to sende or use them, as we shall fynde most convenient for her Majesties service. At the Haghe the xxijth of July. 1590.