Letter ID: 0945
Reference: BL, MS Cotton Galba D VII f.208r-211v
Citation: DCB/001/HTML/0945/000
Date: 18 July 1590
Note: There is a signature 'OO' in the middle of the bottom of f.208r. The manuscript is heavily annotated, with many interlinear additions. There is a deleted line written horizontally in the left margin of f.211r. Opposite this in the main body of the text a
Copies: 0551



Later Addition: Belgia: 1590. July.

Later Addition: Belgia 1590 18 July

May it please your good LL. As by our former lettres we have already signified we delivered /that we delivered to the States generall/ uppon the xvjth of June last we delivered to the States generall certain propositions, sellected out of the partes of our instructions as mes [metest] (in our opinions) to be first handled in respect that they did not only concerne the reformacon of the deserters of /in/ the musters & martiall discipline, (whereof they have long complained) but also the maters wherein her Majestie desireth /requyreth/ satisfaction as by the copie sent herewith shall best appeare unto your LL. s /whereunto/ we receaved their answers by way of appostill uppon the xiijth of July and not sooner, althoughe we were often importunate by speache and lettres, to urge a conference that /to the end/ we might com to some conclusion uppon thesaid propositions. After we had receaved and considered of their answers, fynding /and found/ the principall thinges required by her Majestie absolutly [des] /with gentle wordes/ denyed, we demaunded audience and enterd with them into conference uppon the xvth /of this presente/: shewed unto them the reasons and causes that moved her Majestie to demaund those /the/ thinges they had denyed, and their inconsiderate refusall made to gratifye her Majestie in maters of so slender moment, and wherein she might /had meanes/ /might/ at all tymes right her selfe having meanes thereunto as they knowe /might could conceave/. This we amplified to the uttermoste of our uttermo understaunding, and brought them to promise, that they wold consider and deliberate again/e/st uppon the /same/ pointes and yeld us suche furder answer as the State state of there Country and affaires wold parmitte.

Some few daies before the deliverie of their appostilles they sent fol.208v

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unto us /in writing/ by their Geffier Arsens six propositions, by the which they desired to understand what auctoritie we had to give them satisfaction to the severall maters therein conteyned whereunto we answered by way of appostill as your LL. shall parceave by the inclosed./ But to digresse somewhat from these thinges we are to lett your LL understaund, that before we entred into treaty with the States uppon the maters of ours and their propositions /our negotiation/, we desired to knowe of them /as we dyd at the tyme of our first accesse/ whether they were auctorized from their Provinces to treate & conclude with us upp us, for thexplanyng of the treatie &c. as we were from her Majestie appearing by our lettres of credence delivered unto them: they answered us in so doubtfull maner and with suche distinctions, standing uppon the pointes of their souveraintie and the absolute auctoritie they had [&] the qualitie of the States generall) that we were constrayned to demaunde their answer in writing which your LL shall herewith receive: they confessed neverthelesse unto us that thoughe their auctoritie (as they weare a Bodye,) was sufficient to deale and conclude in all thinges, yet in their discretions they ever used to have the advise of their /particular/ provinces in all thinges that were to receive determinacion among them, wherein they should have cause to bynde ther Provinces, and, that following the same course they had imparted our propositions to their severall Provinces and had given answers unto them according to the resolutions [.] /they had/ received And furder concerning the ix articles they received from /delivered your LL. exhibited unto them by me [&]/ Master Bodley in August last, they answered in speache, that /bicause/ the same contayned only generalities, their Provinces could not agree to give auctorit[[ie]] fol.209r

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to treat & conclude uppon them, for that their comissions /are/ alwaies and only given uppon /thinges/ particular.

To retourne to our conference; wh when we had received their answer as aforesaid, and put in some hope of better successe after their second consideracion had of our propositions, we were contented at their ernest request, to open unto them how farre we were auctorized to give them satisfaction in the maters of our /their/ ix propositions, and did declare unto them touching their trade to Spayne /that/ her Majestie had given us power to [.] unto them certain conditions which her Majestie required to have observed oft by the subjectes of the united Provinces trading to those partes: and for the disadvowance of [suche] of the actions of suche parsons as they had pretended to have disturbed their Estate under pretence of service to her Majestie, we had /also/ here under her Majestie had hande an acte or declaracion to that effecte.The States desired to have a copie of the conditions for there trade that they might consider of them, and that we wold /also likewise/ deliver a into their handes the acte of disadvouance that /to the end/ they might use the same benefitt of the State state /to the benefitt of the Provinces/ according to her Majesties gratiouse porpose. And for as muche as we, fynding them cold and slowe in answeing /satisfyeng/ (in any one pointe) her Majesties expectacion, and desirouse to give them /some/ provocacion to procede roundly and briefly with us, we give /delivered unto/ them at our next /third/ meting on the xvijth of July /this monethe/ a copie of the conditions and yelded to let them see the acte of disadvouance. The conditions they fol.209v

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they misliked as over hard, alleaging that their [/[.]/] trade into Oastlan[[d]] was only uppon victuell munition, and suche other marchandizes as were prohibited by thesaid conditions: that if they should forebear to trade in those king kyndes /of merchandize/ other nacions wold prevent them, /in the course [.] their [.]/ and so their trade and navigacion decaye to the ruyne of their Estate./ The acte of disadvowance we refused to deliver, (as so directed) onles they wold unlesse they wold assent unto an abolition towardes suche parsons /there compatriottes/ as were banished and disgraced for /by them for shewe of/ their affections & indevours to be service to her Majestie, and her [.] /in theise Countries/ and for whome her Majestie by her lettres and otherwise had /often/ interceded, and could not prevaile. After long debating and /many/ reasons yeilded by us to induce them to gratifye her Majestie, in this pointe they concluded that if we wold deliver the acte to be published it would be a meanes not only to move the provinces but the townes in particulare where the banished were /had ben/ sentenced by course of Justice, (and without whose consent they might /not/ remytt the offence already judged,) to condiscend to as muche as her Majestie required. we desired therein to be pardoned, and advised them on their partes to be thinke them selfes of a reciprocall course to gratifye her Majestie in the one as she had /freely & g/ gratiously graunted the the other but our /we semed not our reasons &/ parsuasions wold in no sorte /at that tyme like to/ prevaile, and there /so/ we brake of for that tyme /ended our conference./

Uppon the xviijth of July we retorned againe to our conference /audience/ expecting some gretefull answere to our first propositions, at which tyme Barnevelt, (speaking for the rest as he dothe alwaies President,) declared unto us that the States there assembled had with good maturitie /revewed and/ considered of our first propositions, and that fynding a great difficultie in the first article concerning the giving of the discipline and publishing the [.] fol.210r

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for musters to her Majesties auxilliarie troupes which appartaning to them in reguard of the soveraunetie of their Countreys they could not assent /without [prejudice] to their auctoritie/ that it should be don by her Majestie or in her name, and that by cause the rest of the articles required to be graunted, were [provided] uppon the same mater and auctoritie, they might not in any sort change there answers already made given: /howe be it if we wold deliver they [.] reasons the reasons of our mislike of there /said/ answers in writing they would take some tyme to conferre furder/ [In margin: on them and therein [.] the advise of the Consaill of Estate how to give us other satisfaction althoughe for their owne parts they could not see howe the presente state of their Countrey which could beare and/y/ other resolution to those pointes then was already delivered.]
(and it is my LL that this first point falling into /comyng to be/ debated between them and us after their appostilles delivered, we stood with them as warranted by the contracte (as we take it) that her Majestie and her generall /ought/ to give the discipline to her owne subjectes, in respect she y they were a volont- ary [succor] of her Majestie graunted to the Provinces /uppon their humble petition/ and not as mercenary although her /Majesties/ charges were to be remborsed at the end of [.] their warres. They held the troupes /notwithstanding/ to be mercinarye, and with all pleadid the last article of the treatie where it is sayd that her Majesties gouvernour and forces shall take the other Oath accustomed /accustomed/ to the Provinces which (say they) is to be obey the discipline of thes /their/ Countreys. We therefore having in our other conferences delivered as muche as might in reason parvaile them to allowe this power to her Majestie and layd before them /not thinking it/ thought it not fitte to enter againe into contestacion /any furder dispute/ with them /of then mater/ we tooke the occacion to replie to the last parte of their Speache, and declared how muche we wonndred at their so strang strange & straight kynde /of dealing/ with her Majestie how muche they forgett, the benefittes they had received from her even to the preservacion of their Estate that the maner of their proceding appeared unto us to be so full fol.210v

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of suspition and mistrust that if we had ben Spanyardes, it could not be worse: that they wold /were/ deceived them selfes in their conceptes if they thought her Majestie were not [incase] to [.] th her Estate without them. that where they [seemed to .] /[previded] the/ there refusall of her Majesties demaundes uppon thes to be for the preservacion of there Estate, that their course /which is [.] held/ towardes her Majestie was a highe way to the ruyne of the same, yf her Majestie by their ingratitude should be drawen to revoke her succours. that her Majesties demaundes were no new thinges /unto them/ but suche as had ben often urged unto them, and ever denyed , or doubtfully answered: that it was not to be thought they were nowe to seeke of their resolution to thesaid demaundes /and/ that their pretence to conferre with the consaile on our replies were but devises to win tyme /and that we supposed the Provinces not to be of their myndes to yeld so ingratefull requitall to her Majestie for so great & inestimable benefitte/. This and muche more too long to be writen we delivered unto them, which bred in them no alteracion of their porpose but rather as to muche to answer us, that they were bound to see to the saftie of their Countreys, that theise demandes of her Majestie tended to the overthrowe thereof /of them/: that they knewe it did import her Majestie as muche as them to kepe their Countrys from the Spaynardes to whome if they should yeld them selfes by a peace her Majestie would spedily knowe fynde the want of their allyance: that what soever her Majestie had bestowed in the succour of them /according to the contracte/ should be /duely/ repaied and for the which she had sufficient caution in /remayned on her/ handes and that their resolutions delivered to or demandes were suche as they /had/ received from there /severall/ Provinces. To theise their answers we replied as appartauned in confermacion and confirmed our conceiptes of their doinges /porposely even/ by their owne proceedinges doinges and allegacions.

This conference ended we departed from their assembly with out any conclusion /at all,/ and bycause we parceive as well by their delayes as by their /speaches & doinges/ that there is /otherwise/ /and with as/ likehope to be had of any better correspondence untill fol.211r

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cor/r/espondence from theise /the/ men that now manage the affaires here, we have thought it our duties and moste necessarie for her Majesties service to trouble your LL. with this historicall discourse of our travell with them that you might best in your /wisdoms/ consider, what shalbe mete to be furder don in this negotiacion and to vouchesafe us your direccion accordingly. And for that we have reason by many circumstances to conjecture, that thesmen and people are (as we feare) irrecouverably fallen from all good affection towardes her Majestie /having ben so long suffered to hatche and chereshe the misconceipt they have had of some indiscreet dealinges of her Majesties chifest [ministeres in]/ we wold omitt in discharge of our said dueties to deliver our poore opinion and understand- ing of that we have lerned and found by our knowledge here, wherein we desire to be pardoned. [In margin: untill on the [ijj]th of this moneth one among them, professing him selfe in all duetye devoted to her Majestie entring into som comyng to me Thomas Wilkes /by occacion/ to my lodging, fell into speache of what had passed between the States and us in the last assemblee /conference/, gave me to under stand as of him selfe that there had ben /& under promise of [Secret] that uppon/ some furder consideracion had /taken/ by his Collegues of the proposition uppon the which we had so muche [.] and doubted not but /there was hope/ they wold give her Majestye therein suche reasonable satisfaction as might well be requered: so as we are hereby put in some hope, that they will yeild to more that they we expected when we departed from there assemblie and therefore did advise us to procede and to deliver suche furder reasons /againe/ in writing suche reasons /as we had/ uttered in speache to induce them /to/ yeld to her Majesties demandes: whose [.] we resolved to followe and [detect] some better [.] of our travell. This partie gav likewise advise as a parson seamyng to tender [[.]] gave furder advise that that we]
Trust we fynde theye there hath /ben/ /Suche as /[.]/ have sought to [disprove] and slander the actions of her Majestie & her subjectes here have dangerously/ blowen into the eares of the Comon people a [.] that her Majesties intention, from the beginning hath ben by indirect & undue meanes (not withstanding her refusall made of the Souveraintie & protection of theise Countreys offered unto her) to seaze and usurple usurpe the auctoritie & gouvernement in theise Countreys, and to that ende whatsoever was /hath ben here don by her Majesties generalles that might receipte receive construction of evell, is layd to majesties Charge as don by her comandement. This hath ben sprede by the practise of some principall parsonnes of theise Countreys suche as doe affecte the faction of the Frenche, which is followed here (not withstanding it is [indevoured] to parsuade her Majestie and your LL to the contrary) so en. ernestly prosecuted under hand, that the comon people hav/e/ing nothing els in there mowthes and conceiptes, but that the Frenche K. shall becom their Souveraine, and stacke not to saye even tor our faces that are englishe that they hope of better assistance and relief from France, then ever they fol.211v

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have had from her Majestie. Moreover there is nothing don in Englandeto the prejudice of any inhabitant here, but is made mater to agravate /& inlarge/ the /[.]/ concept of the people against her Majestie, as namely the stay of some shippes & goodes of others nowe lately in /made stayed/ by Sir Martin Frobisher (whereof we have late at the instance of the States /we have/ writen to your LL.) is given out so muche to the disadvantage of her Majestie and her nation as nothing more. We therefore as well to incounter this practise as to prevent furder were whereas in the tyme that I Thomas Wilkes was /lately/ here /employed/ and had the aqueyntance of many of the best of these Countreys gentlemen and others /then well affected to her Majestie/ that wold usually resort unto me, I dare assure your L: that not sithence my being here, they be not (and as I learne they dare not) repaire unto me, nor any man, unlesse it be Paul Buis kept from all credit and place among them, dare discouver him self to be englishe. and therefore

To what head or office theise thinges may com your LL will better Judge then we best consider: only for our poore opinion to prevent the mischefe that may followe /thereof/ of this practis as we have as so advised from some of the best experienced patriottes of theise Countreys /and under your LL: favor and correction,/ thought good to frame a a lettre which her Majestie, by your LL motion and mediation may be pleased to write to certain of the Principall townes of the Provinces to staye the slanderouse reportes and conceiptes spredd of her Majestie as aforesaid, the copie whereof your LL. shall receive herewith, to be altered and corrected as to you shall be thought convenient so it may answer the pointes of the slander therein mentioned: /and/ a like draught of a lettre to /the/ States generall notifyeng the causes that have moved her majestie, in defence of her honor to write the other, /to the townes also/ we like send unto your LL. which we thincke as necessary /as the other/ to be sent forth

[In margin: we in seeking to procure grace and remission for the banished and disgraced, should in any case forebeare to use her Majesties name for suche as were condemned /[.]/ /proscribed/ at Leyden alleaging that forasmuche as the late Earle of Leycester had disadvowed the doinges of those parsons in that place, her Majestie had no reason to intreat for them, and that the motion thertofore made in ther favour from her Majestie[] had given some occacion to suche as were not well affected unto her to enter into conceipt and to parsuade others that her Majestie shold /take uppon her to/ advowe the doinges of those men. He declared furder that for all the rest (Monsieur Deventer only excepted) /a man held above all the rest/ there wold be no diffr[ence] made and that /likewise/ for her Majesties sake there wold be favour /might be/ graunted to the men of Leyden so as suite might be /were/ made [.] by some particulare parson in ther owne names. By this advise we are incourraged to procede, and to followe the opinion and direction of the partie afforesaid: and uppon the successe will not faile with dilligence to advertise your LL.]